Seeing Is Understanding
Aug. 9th, 2013 10:38 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
blairmacgThis is about speaking up, creepers, and what good men don’t always see. Names have been changed.
Some time ago, I was having lunch with a group of friends—four men, one woman, and me. I’ve known most of the group for five or six years. We were talking about shared past experiences when one of the men mentioned that he missed Larry. “Gotta like a man who can make a good cup of coffee,” he said.
“No, I don’t,” I blurted out, and described how that man knew precisely where the lines of “inappropriate” behavior were drawn, and had spent the last couple of years nudging those lines whenever he came across a woman he considered “available.” I mentioned he’d been called out for failing to heed polite turn-downs, that he got offended when the turn-down became less polite. I mentioned how women who weren’t even the focus of his attention breathed a sigh of relief when he left the room.
None of the men discounted my experience or my descriptions. But every one of them said they hadn’t seen or noticed anything like that. I do want to be clear that their responses were not in the spirit, tone, or words of dismissal. Instead, they were genuinely puzzled that their observations had missed something they assumed would be obvious. One said he felt bad he hadn’t realized what was going on.
So I pushed the issue.
Without explaining what I was going to do, I got up and stood behind one of the men. I put my hands on his shoulders, then stretched my fingers as far down his chest as possible while still seeming to give a plutonic shoulder rub.* I pulled him back against my chest, digging my fingers in when he resisted. That action alone let him know I acknowledged he didn’t want me to be pulling on and touching him, and I didn’t care.
“You look so tense,” I said in a nice, soft voice. Not sexy, not husky, but more intimate than standard conversation. Not intimate enough to be “inappropriate,” though. “You just let me give you a rub and I’ll make you feel better. I can tell you need that.”
Then, while he say immobile with surprise, I leaned past him to pick up his coffee cup, keeping my chest close to his face and my other hand firmly on his shoulder. To the others, it likely looked as if I was just resting my hand there. That man, though, could feel the pressure I exerted to keep him pressed close to me. He would have had to make an obvious, rude-looking push to get away. “I’ll get you some more coffee, too. You just let me take care of that.”
I gave the man a sweet smile in answer to his shocked stare, then returned to my seat, put my napkin back on my lap, and said, “That’s what Larry does.”
The man I’d touched totally understood in that moment. He’d experienced how it felt—even at the hands of a friend—to have your personal boundaries violated and your “polite” signals of resistance ignored. The other men had that slack expression that comes when surprising facts suddenly jolt long-held assumptions. “Creepy” was uttered, as was “awful” and “scary.
Their words held a tone of… almost fear? As if they were suddenly running through all sorts of past interactions in search of similar behaviors, and finding some.
Now they are able to see it.
*The “long-fingered” shoulder rub is a common tactic used by creepers who want to look like they’re being so tender and nurturing while actually making the woman fear he’s going to grab a breast at any moment.
See also:
Where the Boundaries Are Drawn
Also posted at Blair MacGregor Books
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"That Guy" and personal space
Date: 2013-08-09 03:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 03:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-10 02:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 03:24 pm (UTC)I have gotten to the point where I have an arsenal for that. I start with a quite-audible, "Please stop touching me," followed by, "I asked you to stop touching me," followed by escalating in volume, "stop touching me Stop Touching Me STOP TOUCHING ME" until the person stops.
I have had to use this on women as well as on men (although more on men). It tells me a lot about the room I'm in, whether bystanders actively join the unwanted-toucher in their justifications. If there are no looks of concern while I escalate in volume, that's a room I need to leave by any means necessary. (I have vertigo, so my mobility varies significantly, which is why the "wrench away, standing up, confronting body language" is not always physically possible for me.)
But this is not always possible for people who have been socialized to be polite and "nice." It took me until I was almost 30 to develop this mode, and I had various factors encouraging it, not like some people who are less fortunate in their families, jobs, and circumstances.
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Date: 2013-08-09 03:42 pm (UTC)I had a friend in college who would talk about the "Three levels of no," which align pretty closely to what you're talking about. So often women are taught to only use the first two, or the first one, or to state their preferences so obliquely that it's not even really "no" at all.
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Date: 2013-08-09 03:43 pm (UTC)I think what most disturbed the man I touched was that he suddenly realized he had no idea how to respond when I didn't "permit" him to politely withdraw.
My primary self-defense instructor--a petite woman--taught me I have the right to tell if asking doesn't work. "You will stop touching me and walk away."
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Date: 2013-08-09 03:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 08:27 pm (UTC)One possible reason it's so hard to learn to do this is that it starts early. Kids get pawed by grownups a lot. On the one occasion when I responded to that as it deserved, I got a savage beating.
In the example given, at a table, I would recommend picking up a fork and saying, "Hands. Off. Now."
Being polite, or even nonaggressive, gives the offender an excuse to claim a belief in having permission.
(And yes, I realize you've just demonstrated you know that. I was spelling it out for any other reader who might have as much trouble connecting thoughts as I do on a bad day.)
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Date: 2013-08-09 08:50 pm (UTC)It is so civilized.
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Date: 2013-08-09 10:05 pm (UTC)Kids should be taught to trust, not ignore, their gut feelings.
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Date: 2013-08-09 10:03 pm (UTC)But that's just me, and those are boundaries I feel comfortable working within. I acknowledge the boundaries of others are both different from mine and equally valid.
And to the issue of kids being socialized to endure unwanted touch... yeah, I hate that. I had a distant relative I hated to hug. He creeped me out on a visceral level for reasons I, as a kid, couldn't articulate. Come to find out decades later he'd quietly and repeatedly abused a number of my cousins.
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Date: 2013-08-09 10:47 pm (UTC)Learned in later years that this is the most frequent case in long-term abuse. I can well understand why; when a doctor, a police officer, and a priest all respond to your story by hectoring you for saying Bad Things about A *M*O*T*H*E*R*, then violating confidentiality by calling your molester, informing on you, and sending you home with her, it tends to hamper efforts to make it stop.
A kick in the gut turns out to work okay, though.
Regarding the forms of personal groping widely considered acceptable, I will add that the last time I got my cheek pinched, I bit.
The scream was worth every blood blister from my mother's yardstick.
EDITED FOR SENSE
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Date: 2013-08-10 02:28 am (UTC)I hate-hate-hate when adults try to avoid confrontation, discomfort, and "awkwardness" by ignoring and even blaming the child.
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Date: 2013-08-10 02:54 am (UTC)Enough about me. Did anybody in the example you gave us say anything sensible after your (excellent!) demo?
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Date: 2013-08-10 03:46 am (UTC)One did mention it later in the context of how he intended to raise his son to respect others. That's a win right there in my book. :)
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Date: 2013-08-10 03:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-10 07:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 03:46 pm (UTC)Moi? Unless I know them and they fit in my personal list of People I'm Okay With Touching me, I'll do my damnedest to whip around with a fist and pull it back just before connecting if someone tries this on me. I may make it playful, if the situation calls for it, but I'm not kidding. It's not always a conscious reaction.
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Date: 2013-08-09 07:06 pm (UTC)When he protested, she said, "Oh, I thought you *wanted* to give me this hand."
He stopped touching.
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Date: 2013-08-10 10:01 pm (UTC)(Here <
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Date: 2013-08-09 05:01 pm (UTC)It's very heartening to read your post and see that, once they're made aware of the type of thing that's happening, the men are just as creeped out over it as the women. Gives one hope that everyone (male and female both) can learn to recognize those situations in the future and respond to aid a "trapped" person before anything worse can happen.
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Date: 2013-08-09 06:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 07:12 pm (UTC)Rehearsing responses within the aware community can help one find the cease-and-desist methods that are both effective AND that fit what you're more comfortable with.
That comfort level is critical, imho. Just as writers are more comfortable with some styles than others, and martial artists more capable with some techniques than others, we individuals will find which responses match both the situation and our natural inclinations. One person's go-to answer will not be the best for everyone in every situation.
"Are you huggable?"
Date: 2013-08-11 04:06 am (UTC)thanks
That's way better than what I've come up with on my own.
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Date: 2013-08-09 07:03 pm (UTC)Then, honestly, I got creeped out that I was able to create that reaction with what I'd done. For me, it underscored just how easily power-taking could be accomplished.
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Date: 2013-08-09 06:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 07:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 06:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 07:14 pm (UTC)Most decent men can easily recognize the overt slimeballs. It's tougher--for both men and women, I think--to recognize the subtle manipulations of seemingly "nice" guys.
Compare and contrast
Date: 2013-08-09 06:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-09 08:22 pm (UTC)Women forget - because both men and women are socialised in this pattern - that men are, when push comes to shove, just as vulnerable as men: sure, *some* men can physically overcome more potential assailants than most women - but much of the time there's social constraints and surprise and individual reactions and disadvantaged positions, which level the field.
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Date: 2013-08-09 10:08 pm (UTC)YES. Exactly.
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Date: 2013-08-09 09:23 pm (UTC)(My attitude to uninvited touch is "who the hell raised you, WOLVES? NO WAIT, WOLVES ARE MORE POLITE." Because I was actually raised to see invading someone else's personal space as, not just wrong, but really rude. Which might seem like a small difference, but frankly, I've had a lot better luck reacting to it as a "where the hell are your MANNERS, dude?" than "stop doing this bad thing". I am not the socially unacceptable one for freaking out that you touched me without permission, YOU are the socially unacceptable one, wth.)
(General "you", obviously.)
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Date: 2013-08-09 10:14 pm (UTC)Very much so. As Green_Knight said above, many of the factors that go into a woman's hesitation enter into a man's hesitation. It is, I think, a common reaction when one isn't certain of what is actually happening or what the "accepted" response should be.
It might have been even more confusing for the men because I wasn't being confrontational. Had I shouted in their faces or been overtly threatening, they would have responded more quickly and with confidence. But the touch was "nice." He had no reference point for how to stop "nice."
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Date: 2013-08-09 10:39 pm (UTC)Hi, I'm Jess, and I've put you on my Friends List, if that's okay. ^^
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Date: 2013-08-10 02:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-11 02:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-11 02:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-11 03:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-11 08:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-13 04:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-12 08:49 pm (UTC)The phrase "long-fingered shoulder rub" is almost poetic in its vividness. Unwanted verbal interactions I was (intellectually) aware of, but I hadn't thought about people sliming their way into physical contact with other people. That's really scary, even if you ignore the things you mentioned in some of the linked posts about self-defense.
Thank you for writing these posts. It's definitely something I'll try to watch for in the future.
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Date: 2013-08-13 04:33 pm (UTC)Yet more depressing and uplifting things - 18 August - 31 August 02013
Date: 2013-09-01 09:49 pm (UTC)Public-Space Bounderies
Date: 2013-10-06 11:10 pm (UTC)These aren't friends, these aren't acquaintances, these are total strangers, who think nothing of getting right up against me while "reaching for the tomatoes" or "putting stuff on the belt" or "grabbing a Weekly World News." So, I have a tendency to stand with my hands hooked into my pockets, and to turn, frequently, elbows out. It usually only takes once, sometimes twice, to get the message across. "This is my space, and you are in it." Only twice have I had to escalate to stepping back onto a toe.
Like I said, though, this happens way more to my wife. I've even seen it. She's 6'2". I can't begin to imagine how bad this is for smaller women and men. How do the rest of you handle this kind of unwanted touch? I'm looking for hints for my wife, as the elbow thing doesn't come as naturally to her as it does to me...
Re: Public-Space Bounderies
Date: 2013-10-07 02:33 pm (UTC)As a woman, I've done the elbow thing. I've also given the offending person a blank--not angry--stare. Often, the discomfort of being directly watched makes people stop. A loud cough or throat-clearing sometimes works well. I've flipped my hair over my shoulders when someone was standing close enough to be hit in the face with the strands.
When not in the best of moods to start with, I've said something snarky like, "I'm sorry, were you in my way?" But snark in those situations is an escalation, not a strategy. Not Recommended!
Me too
Date: 2013-10-07 10:58 am (UTC)Unfortunately it seems I was of the "rabbit in your headlights" freezing kind. I think - I hope - I would be able to manage it differently, now.
Re: Me too
Date: 2013-10-07 06:18 pm (UTC)For myself, I've found it's been easier to handle those situations because I care less what others think of my response. I don't need permission from others to protect myself.
Does that mean I'll always know the right thing to do, and do it? Nope. I suspect I'll screw up often. :)